Saturday, October 13, 2007

Ray, have you ever told a lie?

Click here to download WOTMWatchdog's blitz promo video, then post it on your YouTube account in response to this one! Help support your friendly neighborhood Watchdogs! Click here for the now-famous Monkey song! Yes, it's ours, and the WOTM crew knows it, despite their continued feigned ignorance!

Yes, the RRS vs. WOTM debate on ABC's NightLine is old news. It happened back in May. I remember joining the fray on ABC's message boards, teaming up with another atheist, a perfect stranger, who called himself Former Follier. Ah, the memories. Little did I know that one day, WOTM Watchdog would bring us together once again to battle the juggernaut directly.

But now we hear a side of the story that has never been told. Our good friend Brian Sapient of the Rational Response Squad has agreed to share some inside information regarding the lead-up to the debate... And it doesn't reflect well on Mr. Comfort and Mr. Cameron.

For those who watched the debate, do you remember the promos? I do. Mr. Comfort and Mr. Cameron stated repeatedly that they would prove the existence of God, "scientifically, absolutely, without mentioning faith or the Bible." In fact, they are directly quoted saying exactly that on the ABC News web page promoting the debate. It's a claim Mr. Comfort makes often. For another example, listen to his "What Hollywood Believes" sermon. Conveniently, this sermon was broadcast the Way of the Master Radio program on October 10th, while the radio team took a day off. Thus, it's available on their audio archives page.

Ignoring, for now, the gaping technical flaw in Mr. Comfort's argument... Well, okay. We won't ignore the gaping technical flaw of Ray's argument. I just can't resist. Nothing can be proven scientifically and absolutely; science doesn't deal in absolutes. Nor does it deal in "proof." If it's proof you want, look into mathematics or formal logic. You'll find no such concepts in science, which only concerns itself with evidence. This is why nothing ever gets beyond the status of "theory" in science. If Mr. Comfort doesn't understand that, then he doesn't understand what the academic discipline we call "science" fundamentally is, and really shouldn't be throwing the word "scientifically" around. It just makes him look foolish. Anyway, back to the matter at hand. In the debate itself, "without mentioning faith or even the Bible" mysteriously became simply "without mentioning faith." When I first watched it, I didn't catch it. I had no idea that they tried to weasel their way out of their self-imposed terms until I saw Mr. Sapient's recently-released video. Rather convenient for Ray and Kirk, really, considering that they almost immediately invoked the Ten Commandments... Which, it turns out, are in the Bible.

Yes, there's really no way around it. The Rational Response Squad crew won this debate hands-down, and any honest, competent moderator would have granted them a decisive victory. Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron clearly failed to stick to the terms of the debate. They even failed to stick to their own stated position. It's not that they're poor debaters, it's that they're liars. Sleazy, slimy, manipulative, and very, very slick liars indeed.

Remember, Ray: Your own God says that all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire. Does he make exceptions for people who lie for Him?

If you've been living under a rock for the past six months, click here to view some of the highlights of the debate, courtesy of the Rational Response Squad.


mike said...

I hope a few Christians will come read and watch the video and see that the WOTM people are just liars. Most of the things I hear or read from them are usually dishonest.

Kelly said...

No... no no... I think the reason why Kirk is mad at Ray is because he made him hold up that stolen copyrighted crocoduck image, and Kirk was laughed at all over the world and embarrassed.

Oh wait... we weren't talking about that yet?

Michael said...

You know, I'm probably alone here, but I feel sorry from Kirk Cameron. I've heard alot of people talk about their faith, and every word Kirk says wreaks of someone who's simply terrified of hell. I think it would be terrible to live with that kind of fear.

Anonymous said...

Hahaha, WOTB got pwned!

Have you guys ever seen that movie "The Number 23"?

It's weird because there are 66 books of the bible.

In Hebrew the number 6 translates out to the letter V.

In Europe "W" is actually known as double V, so 66 books of the bible would translate out to VV or double V and or W.

W is the 23rd letter of the English alphabet, not to mention it bears 2 lower points and 3 upper points signifying 23 once more.


Ishn't that veird?

Even weirder is the number 66 is notorious in the occult world as being a magical number so I see some esoteric/occult information not being disclosed about the Bible here.

"Get your kicks - on route 66"


-Prime Factors of 66=2x3x11.
-66 is a 23-gonal Number.
-66 can be Partitioned 34 times with each term no larger than 2.
-66 can be Partitioned 397 times with each term no larger than 3.

23 baby, yeah!

Lilith VonNuremburg said...

I have only seen 10:24(minutes and seconds) of this web bit, and all I can feel is sadness for both kirk and Ray. Sad that they had to lie to prop up their believes and lie to get that many people into a building.

I mean,let's think about the second comment Ray was "supposed" to speak on:everyone has a concience, or at least the kind that you are talking about.What you talk about is this collective consience that cries out to it's creator and really really really wants to be the best person it can be according to a preset number of ways(ie your doctorine).
Not really Ray, not really. People who do horrid things to children(John Gacy),murder for the hell of it, and think that is just ducky do not have what you consider a consience. I mean, I may be incorrect, but this is my opinion, howbeit not totally ironed out.

Bryan said...

You know what, I'm a Christian. Have been for 5 years now. I respect agnostics much more than athiests. There's a reason you folks get no respect, but you don't see it.

Hit me up: who wants to discuss...